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#1 2011-01-18 08:54:29

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
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Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Hi all,

My Openbox config has been getting more and more minimalist every month. I love it, but it's got to the point where im using keys for pretty much everything, i have no panel, and forgot to plug my mouse in last week and didn't notice until i started a game up and got shot while shouting in a confused voice.

It seems like it'd be a lot more efficient to give a tiling WM manager a try, at least for a bit of a change. I've installed a version of ScrotWM alongside OB and was wondering if anybody had any good advice/links to help me get started? Reading the man pages at the moment to get a handle on the config options, but i always find this stuff is three times as easy to understand coming from a person, haha.

So yeah, any advice/links/tips/config examples you guys have would be awesome. Can't wait to give this a try smile

-Gaz


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#2 2011-01-18 09:23:28

illumin8
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From: Seattle
Registered: 2009-05-30
Posts: 407
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

@gutterslob is the resident scrotwm guru. Actually Id like to dig into it too. Maybe we could talk him into a little how to action... the gutterslob scrotwm blog. man that sounds cool and terrible all @ the same time.


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#3 2011-01-18 09:26:06

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

illumin8 wrote:

@gutterslob is the resident scrotwm guru. Actually Id like to dig into it too. Maybe we could talk him into a little how to action... the gutterslob scrotwm blog. man that sounds cool and terrible all @ the same time.

lol scrot-slob-blog. Sounds all kinds of wrong.

Really like the look of tiling WM though, totally different way of doing things.


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#4 2011-01-18 14:27:47

anonymous
The Mystery Member
From: Arch Linux Forums
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,418

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

The Arch wiki has some info:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Scrotwm

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#5 2011-01-18 16:15:44

gutterslob
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Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,055

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

No idea where you got the "guru" from. lol
Seriously, I only run ScrotWM on my netbook and another older laptop. They're both mostly CLI setups (I didn't even bother install gtk2-engines), so I won't say they're a complete desktop replacement, but I do manage to get most of my non-graphic-arts work done quite handily.

I mentioned the Arch wiki's ScrotWM page that @anon linked to somewhere in this month's thread as well. It's a decent resource. There's not much to be said about ScrotWM, tbh. One look at the config file and you'll definitely figure stuff out.

Some things to note:
ScrotWM does seem to be lacking when put next to other tilers like Xmonad, DWM or AwesomeWM. It lacks Xmonad's hooks (though it's Quirks system works to some extent). It doesn't have any start file, so you'll need to make a simple script to start your preferred WM-related daemons/services. It's bar/panel doesn't show what's opened in non-visible workspaces (though you can replace it with dzen2, which does the job). It also doesn't seem to have a "mod-override" option, which might relegate you to using Mod4 (the Super key), since using Mod1 (Alt) would conflict with many of the keybindings for our regular apps..... There are probably more things wrong with it that I can't recall right now.

Not trying to dissuade you guys ... just want to let you know what's on offer and what's not.

It's got excellent defaults, imho. I hardly changed anything in the .scrotwm.conf file. Only specified my preferred terminal emulator (urxvt), changed the colors, uncommented some fullscreen quirks for Mplayer, and added a couple of keybindings.

Like I mentioned, it's mostly CLI apps that I use, along with the usual perks provided by zsh or bash.

Why not use it for a bit and then ask me what you need?

Edit:
Found this on a friends site. It should explain stuff better than I can.
http://www.digitalfoo.net/posts/2009/11 … on_Debian/
The first part about the install process won't be important, since it's now available in most distro repos (though I wish I found that link when I had trouble with CVS), but the second part on configuration might prove useful.

@ElderV once asked me how to pipe conky output to the Scrot bar. It's also mentioned in the Arch Wiki, but thought I might as well link my reply here.
http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/91918/#p91918

Hope this helps.

Last edited by gutterslob (2011-01-18 18:34:11)


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#6 2011-01-18 17:05:57

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
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Posts: 51
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Excellent info, guys! Thanks a lot smile will take a look and have a go getting things going later on.

Out of curiosity though, which TWM would you say is the best? I know its a really subjective question, but answer it all the same! I only ask because of the problems with ScrotWM in your post.

I only really picked ScrotWM because it seemed simpler than the others, but if thats not the case or its not a huge jump to something better i'll try that out instead.


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#7 2011-01-18 17:15:35

anonymous
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From: Arch Linux Forums
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,418

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Well ScrotWM's config file is simpler than many others. DWM is coded in C, awesome uses LUA, xmonad uses haskell, etc.

This page may help you decide:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Co … w_Managers

However there is no substitute for trial and error.

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#8 2011-01-18 17:31:50

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

anonymous wrote:

However there is no substitute for trial and error.

God no. I'm looking forward to constantly breaking things, haha.

And yeah, the simple config file was a big plus for ScrotWM.


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#9 2011-01-18 17:43:22

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Hmm, after a bit of research i think either ScrotWM or Awesome seems pretty good. Time to have a play!


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#10 2011-01-18 17:44:09

gutterslob
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Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,055

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Gazhole wrote:

Excellent info, guys! Thanks a lot smile will take a look and have a go getting things going later on.

Out of curiosity though, which TWM would you say is the best? I know its a really subjective question, but answer it all the same! I only ask because of the problems with ScrotWM in your post.

I only really picked ScrotWM because it seemed simpler than the others, but if thats not the case or its not a huge jump to something better i'll try that out instead.

Well, like you say, it's subjective. I used to be (and still am) a huge DWM fan. If you have CrunchBang, then you already have DWM installed, btw. I've tried quite a few before ScrotWM; DWM, Xmonad, Awesome, Musca, wmii, EvilWM, Ratpoison, WMFS.... so I wouldn't say it's the simplicity alone that attracted me to ScrotWM. The reason I settled on Scrot was because it seemed the least "in your way" tiler of the lot (along with Musca). The simple config was just a bonus, seeing as I could have a setup up and running even without my saved configs on-hand.

I'm not the only one, btw. ScrotWM doesn't get a lot of love among Linuxers, but in BSD-land, I know quite a few that use it exclusively. Their reasons are probably different form mine (most of them are the types that have multiple Vim documents open at any single time), but the underlying fact is = it doesn't muck about and lets you get on with your shit.

Still, you can't deny the fact that it's got the worst name in WM history. The 'w' in Scrotwm is pronounced as 'u' in Irish and Flemish, I've heard lol

Last edited by gutterslob (2011-01-18 17:44:58)


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#11 2011-01-18 18:34:11

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

So they've literally named their software after genitalia?

That's a ballsy marketing strategy wink

I think i'll just have to try a few of them out by the looks of things. Since dwm is already installed i'll try that too smile


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#12 2011-01-18 20:10:19

yorick
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Registered: 2010-12-13
Posts: 96

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Gazhole wrote:

So they've literally named their software after genitalia?

That's a ballsy marketing strategy wink

I think i'll just have to try a few of them out by the looks of things. Since dwm is already installed i'll try that too smile


It's odd.  I checked and dwm isn't installed on my fresh January 2011 version of Statler.  I believe something like "dwm tools" or something rather was in there, but not dwm itself.

I wonder if apt-get autoremove or something else removed it?

Last edited by yorick (2011-01-18 20:11:29)

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#13 2011-01-18 21:20:11

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

yorick wrote:

It's odd.  I checked and dwm isn't installed on my fresh January 2011 version of Statler.  I believe something like "dwm tools" or something rather was in there, but not dwm itself.

I wonder if apt-get autoremove or something else removed it?

Strange. I guess it's not much trouble to re-install, but thats still a bit odd.


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#14 2011-01-18 21:23:05

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

I have the basic setup installed, and im messing around with some conky things, but is there an easy way to get a tray working in this? I only use three things in the tray (nm-applet, clipper, volwheel).

Theres no startup file, is there? Could i add those things to the login manager config for #! ?


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#15 2011-01-18 22:26:39

anonymous
The Mystery Member
From: Arch Linux Forums
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,418

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

yorick wrote:

It's odd.  I checked and dwm isn't installed on my fresh January 2011 version of Statler.  I believe something like "dwm tools" or something rather was in there, but not dwm itself.

I wonder if apt-get autoremove or something else removed it?

#!9.04 did have dwm by default but maybe corenominal forgot or left it out for Statler.

Gazhole wrote:

but is there an easy way to get a tray working in this?

Use a tray program like stalonetray or trayer.

Gazhole wrote:

Theres no startup file, is there? Could i add those things to the login manager config for #! ?

Normally you would use ~/.xinitrc however since Statler uses GDM then I don't know what file it uses.

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#16 2011-01-18 22:42:39

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

anonymous wrote:
Gazhole wrote:

but is there an easy way to get a tray working in this?

Use a tray program like stalonetray or trayer.

Gazhole wrote:

Theres no startup file, is there? Could i add those things to the login manager config for #! ?

Normally you would use ~/.xinitrc however since Statler uses GDM then I don't know what file it uses.

Will stalonetray show up properly in ScrotWM?

Figured out the startup script though. Added a .desktop for ScrotWM which runs a .sh to load startup progs and the wm itself.

Not going to badly so far. I wonder if compositing and desktop backgrounds work in this.

Edit: Have had a few random crashes/freezes. Also the MOD+p menu no longer works for some reason. I love breaking stuff.

Last edited by Gazhole (2011-01-18 23:29:02)


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#17 2011-01-19 00:25:16

gutterslob
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Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,055

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

@Gaz
You might want to post your .desktop and startup .sh script here for peeps like @illumin8 and @mfd to refer to. I don't have a .desktop or use GDM.


Stalonetray should work, though I've never used it before. I don't really need a tray as I use cli apps for IM, Wireless...etc. If stalonetray isn't capable of autohiding, you might need to set aside a portion of your screen to it with the "region" variable in your .scrotwm.conf

For example, on a 1024x600 screen this should give you a 20 pixel border on top. You'll need remember to to subtract from the resolution as you add to the region, like I did here (-20 from vertical resolution in order to +20 to top region)

region                  = screen[1]:1024x580+0+20


Desktop bg should work fine. Just install feh and add something like this to the .sh script you made earlier for your startup apps.

feh --bg-scale /gazhole/images/naked-klingon-warrior-chick.png


Compositing also works fine on my setup. I use xcompmgr and have also used transset-df without issue. They're both pretty useless on a tilingWM, tbh.

I've never had any problems with dmenu (Mod+P) in ScrotWM before, so I'm not quite sure what's going on there, mate. Care to explain what you did before it stopped working?

Last edited by gutterslob (2011-01-19 00:35:37)


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#18 2011-01-19 07:35:28

illumin8
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From: Seattle
Registered: 2009-05-30
Posts: 407
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

@Gutterslob
    Thanks for taking the time

@Anon
    Fount of good suggestions per usual.

@Gaz
    Good luck explaining to people on the outside what your window manager is called.


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#19 2011-01-19 09:50:12

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
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Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Right here goes, haha.

scrotwm.desktop

[Desktop Entry]
Encoding=UTF-8
Type=XSession
Exec=/usr/local/bin/scrotwm.sh
TryExec=scrotwm
Name=scrotwm

scrotwm.sh

nm-applet &
mpd &
parcellite &
gnome-power-manager &
sleep .2
scrotwm

scrotwm.conf

# $scrotwm: scrotwm.conf,v 1.15 2009/05/25 22:04:56 dwc Exp $
#
# colors for focussed and unfocussed window borders
color_focus        = rgb:19/55/74
color_unfocus        = rgb:0/0/0


# bar settings
bar_enabled        = 1
bar_border[1]        = rgb:19/55/74
bar_color[1]        = rgb:0/0/0
bar_font_color[1]    = rgb:19/55/74
bar_font        = lime
bar_action        = conky
bar_delay        = 1
clock_enabled        = 0


# spawn app
spawn_term        = x-terminal-emulator


# dialog box size ratio .3 >= r < 1
dialog_ratio        = 0.6


# screen shots
# screenshot_enabled    = 1
# screenshot_app    = screenshot.sh


# Split a non-Xrandr dual head setup into one region per monitor
# (non-standard driver-based multihead is not seen by scrotwm)
# region        = screen[1]:1280x1024+0+0
# region        = screen[1]:1280x1024+1280+0

# mod key, (windows key is Mod4)
modkey = Mod4


# key bindings
# unbind with: bind[] = <keys>
bind[cycle_layout]    = Mod+space
bind[swap_main]        = Mod+Return
bind[focus_next]    = Mod+Tab
bind[spawn_term]    = Mod+t
bind[spawn_menu]    = MOD+p
bind[wind_kill]        = Mod+x
bind[quit]        = Mod+Shift+q
bind[restart]        = Mod+q


# Custom Programs
program[f]          = /usr/bin/firefox
bind[f]             = Mod+w
program[t]          = /usr/bin/thunar
bind[t]             = Mod+f
program[ge]         = /usr/bin/gedit
bind[ge]            = Mod+e
program[ga]         = /usr/bin/galculator
bind[ga]            = Mod+c
program[vl]         = /usr/bin/vlc
bind[vl]            = Mod+v
program[m]          = terminator -e ncmpcpp
bind[m]             = Mod+m
program[vo]         = terminator -e alsamixer
bind[vo]            = Mod+a
program[gn]         = /usr/bin/gnumeric
bind[gn]            = Mod+g
program[wr]         = /usr/bin/abiword
bind[wr]            = Mod+o

As for the MOD+P menu, the only thing i've really done is conky and custom key bindings so i assume its something to do with my scrotwm.conf. Maybe the way i've done conky has something to do with the crashes though. Is using the config file the best way to do this?

Thanks for your help, all smile

EDIT: now got xcompmgr, stalonetray, and a wallpaper working. Stalonetray is a bit finnicky with positioning. Still have no idea why the Mod+P menu isn't woking...

Last edited by Gazhole (2011-01-19 10:53:28)


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#20 2011-01-19 13:44:32

gutterslob
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Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,055

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

@Gaz
Hmm....
I don't see a "program[menu]" entry in your config. O_o?

Anyways, first change your "bind[spawn_menu]" to just "bind[menu]"

Then add this line above it

program[menu]        = dmenu_run -fn $bar_font -nb $bar_color -nf $bar_font_color -sb $bar_font_color -sf $bar_color

You might need to change the color variables a bit later, but just see if it works first.

Goes without saying; make sure you restart ScrotWM (Mod+q) for changes to scrotwm.conf to be applied.

Also, does your scrot bar actually display the Artwhiz lime font? I always assumed it only recognized font iso-codes.

Last edited by gutterslob (2011-01-19 13:45:36)


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#21 2011-01-19 15:17:30

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Excellent, that did the trick with the menu! Thanks!

And yeah, it displays lime smile thankfully. I love the artwiz fonts.

Slowly getting there now. The only thing bugging out is stalonetray. Its fine untill i switch workspaces, then it moves to the centre of the screen. Trying different config options, and made a quirk (FLOAT) so it doesn't get tiled. Still no joy yet, but hey - this is half the fun.

I think this is what's causing it to crash actually, because the WM doesn't know what to do with it, lol. Would it be worth trying another tray program to see if it behaves better? The only other one i know of is trayer.

Last edited by Gazhole (2011-01-19 15:47:09)


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#22 2011-01-20 20:42:33

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,055

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

^ I've only ever used docker, but that requires the WM (like Openbox, for example) to have a dockable area, I think .... some windowmaker thing.... or something.

Sorry I can't help with the tray bit ... I don't use them all that much. sad


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#23 2011-01-20 22:50:41

Gazhole
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From: Deepest, Darkest, South Wales
Registered: 2010-08-16
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

gutterslob wrote:

^ I've only ever used docker, but that requires the WM (like Openbox, for example) to have a dockable area, I think .... some windowmaker thing.... or something.

Sorry I can't help with the tray bit ... I don't use them all that much. sad

No probs, dude!

Will do a fresh install on an old lappy anyway and have a mess about. I don't like fiddling with my main PC too much, lol!

I had a look at xmonad aswell, and i love it except for the damned haskell config file. Lua i can get my head around but this seems rather annoying tongue.


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#24 2011-01-21 13:47:44

Unia
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From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 3,937

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

What about stalonetray for a systray? Somewhere I read it works with scrotWM, not totally sure tho


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#25 2011-01-27 08:13:22

muzieca
#! Die Hard
From: /home
Registered: 2010-08-28
Posts: 1,152

Re: Getting Started with Scrotwm?

Unia wrote:

What about stalonetray for a systray? Somewhere I read it works with scrotWM, not totally sure tho

I've tried stalonetray on ScrotWM, and it's work. I'm using it only for nm-applet though.


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