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#1 2010-10-12 15:29:18

blackplague1347
Member
Registered: 2010-10-07
Posts: 26

Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

It's been a while since I've fiddled with PCLOS, but I bought a cheap netbook yesterday and wanted to put PCLOS on it. Searching the forums for solutions to my problems (no sound, no battery meter, etc.) I noticed just how...unkind the community is compared to, say, Crunchbang. Man, that forum (those forums?) is (are?) like a totalitarian state. Maybe a police state. At one point someone asked a question but, noobishly, failed to provide certain details like which version (Gnome, KDE, etc.) of PCLOS he has and what browser he was using. One response asked appropriate questions (which version are you using? which browser?) and then linked the OP to a sticky titled "How to ask questions the smart way."

Come to think of it, the fact that such a sticky even exists speaks volumes. "This is how smart people do it. Follow these rules or you're not smart." How insulting!

Another time, I created a thread asking for help about getting the java plug-in for FireFox so that I could log on to my school's network. The first two responses I got were from a rather rude administrator (an administrator! You'd think an admin would be among the more helpful of the bunch). When a couple of "average Joe" users managed to understand what the hell I was saying and help me solve my problem, my first instinct was to flame the moron of an admin who was unable to wrap his mind around the problem I was explaining in the first place. I didn't, but the point is that in my short time here on the CrunchBang forums, I have yet to want to break anyone's head open.

tl;dr: CrunchBang has a great community. PCLOS community is a totalitarian state littered with feeble-minded admins and arrogant, useless users.

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Be excellent to each other!

#2 2010-10-12 15:44:30

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 3,656

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

+1 to the #! community wink


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres
      Github || Deviantart

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#3 2010-10-12 18:12:56

luc
#! Die Hard
From: Munich, Germany
Registered: 2010-03-21
Posts: 561

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

i just tried to make a bootable CB usb stick with my mac and came to a mac forum:

they wrote:

Q: i'm looking for unetbootin on mac
A: you can install osx to external w/o it
Q: i want to put an linux iso on usb using my mac. thats why i need something like unetbootin to run on my osx
A: ask at linux forum

well i thought that was not polite but still did what they told the other guy: i visited the CB forums and the soultion was there big_smile (called "dd") and worked on osx. lol

so +1 for #!

luc

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#4 2010-10-12 18:16:31

Hackuity
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 104

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Of course, man...this is Sparta.

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#5 2010-10-12 21:39:44

boromeus
#! Junkie
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 254

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
OMG, 2300 words...

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding (often enough to bet on, anyway). Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding; we'd rather spend our time elsewhere."

kinda nazi... sad

Last edited by boromeus (2010-10-12 21:41:27)

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#6 2010-10-12 21:59:05

servingwater
#! Junkie
Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 440

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

boromeus wrote:

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
OMG, 2300 words...

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding (often enough to bet on, anyway). Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding; we'd rather spend our time elsewhere."

kinda nazi... sad

Pathetic comes to mind really!

Here's another gem from this superb how to...

"Hackers blow off questions that are inappropriately targeted in order to try to protect their communications channels from being drowned in irrelevance. You don't want this to happen to you."

Come again Please!!!!! lol
Didn't know the PC linux Forums were the communications Hub of the worlds greaters hackers!

Sometimes it's not surprising that Linux is not that big with many day to day users!
I mean imagine being a first time user and looking for advice and here you see

"How to ask a question the smart way" and stuff about spelling mistakes translates to bad "coding"....Excuse me coding? I just wanted to play this video file on vlc!!! lol

If the answer to this question would be a ,by their standards a perfectly acceptable, RTFM or STFW don't be dishearted because

"You shouldn't be offended by this; by hacker standards, your respondent is showing you a rough kind of respect simply by not ignoring you. You should instead be thankful for this grandmotherly kindness." lol


Pretentious f.........

Last edited by servingwater (2010-10-12 22:53:43)

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#7 2010-10-12 22:25:17

boromeus
#! Junkie
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 254

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

I still don't like this long HOWTO, but it turned out that it's not PcLinuxOS speciality. In fact it was written by Eric Steven Raymond and many Linux-forums link to it, including Crunchbang.
At least corenominal didn't start the post with quoting the whole document. tongue

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#8 2010-10-12 22:26:56

blackplague1347
Member
Registered: 2010-10-07
Posts: 26

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

servingwater wrote:

<body>

Oh, wow. You actually read it? lol

If I had read the damn thing and saw all of this "we're a bunch of 1337-h4x0r5" nonsense, I'd have never bothered with PCLOS in the first place. It's pretty sad, really, because the OS isn't all that bad.

Regardless, my new mission is to replace PCLOS with OpenSUSE on my netbook (Crunchbang will remain my "main" for my other laptop).

A little off-topic, but do any of you happen to know what comes with the 4.6GB dvd that the Live CD doesn't come with? I'm downloading the CD rather than the DVD now because 4.6gb will take forever to download on my school's awfully-slow network >_>

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#9 2010-10-12 23:46:07

Val_B
#! CrunchBanger
From: SE United States
Registered: 2010-01-25
Posts: 238

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

when I downloaded the SuSE DVD a while ago I found that it wasn't a live DVD but, rather a bootable installer DVD, this was a year or two ago so I don't know what it currently comes with but IIRC it had all kinds of software, even gnome on the DVD, however, you didn't have to install any of that if you didn't want to. I found it rather strange, as that sort of boot up and install I thought had went away a long time ago (when everyone pretty much selected the packages they wanted when they installed).

It is probably just as easy to install whatever base system you want from the live CD and customize from there. The distro's greatest strength is it's well executed KDE integration, but beyond that the sort of packages available are just like everything else. You will likely save time unless you have a faster connection at home.

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#10 2010-10-13 16:17:58

SuperOscar
Member
From: Joensuu, Finland
Registered: 2010-09-30
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

blackplague1347 wrote:

then linked the OP to a sticky titled "How to ask questions the smart way."

Come to think of it, the fact that such a sticky even exists speaks volumes. "This is how smart people do it. Follow these rules or you're not smart." How insulting!

Nah, I can’t totally agree on that. Of course linking to a howto may seem insulting and may even have been meant as insulting, but sometimes the howto’s are just what’s needed to keep the forums in good working order. It’s a way to keep the forum oldtimers happy. If, on a busy forum, people – especially new members – keep on asking trivial questions (a) without providing sufficient (or any!) information for anyone to come up with an answer, and (b) without first searching, however cursorily, if the question has been asked before, well, it’s bound to get rather tedious after a while.

The problem increases exponentially with the number of newcomers around, BTW...

Val_B wrote:

when I downloaded the SuSE DVD a while ago I found that it wasn't a live DVD but, rather a bootable installer DVD, this was a year or two ago so I don't know what it currently comes with but IIRC it had all kinds of software, even gnome on the DVD, however, you didn't have to install any of that if you didn't want to. I found it rather strange, as that sort of boot up and install I thought had went away a long time ago (when everyone pretty much selected the packages they wanted when they installed).

SUSE has a rather strange way of providing installation DVD’s but live CD’s (from which you can of course install!). I don’t know why this is so. I guess that the “SUSE way of things”.


My armada: Arch (desktop, test machine), Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 (laptop, netbook, server), Mythbuntu 11.04 (HTPC), Windows 7 Ultimate (test machine)

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#11 2010-10-14 11:16:42

DixieDancer
#! Junkie
From: Florida, Occupied C.S.A.
Registered: 2009-04-25
Posts: 291
Website

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

They were always very nice to me when I was there for awhile. Maybe because I'm a kid or maybe just because my questions hadn't been asked and answered a zillion times before.

But don't talk about other distros (good or bad) on that board. I made some li'l quip about the Xfce version like, "Dang, and people think Xubuntu is bloated?" and got a rawr from a mod (and the offending post deleted) just for that.

But for the record: Phoenix is unbelievably bloated, far worse than Xubuntu ever thought about being!

There, I said it... I feel better now.

-Robin

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#12 2010-10-15 14:28:45

Iskander
#! Member
From: Srbija
Registered: 2010-04-06
Posts: 58

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

DixieDancer wrote:

But don't talk about other distros (good or bad) on that board. I made some li'l quip about the Xfce version like, "Dang, and people think Xubuntu is bloated?" and got a rawr from a mod (and the offending post deleted) just for that.

That's really, really weird. Other distros can't even be mentioned? And yet they don't mind trolling other distros forums trying to promote their thing. I've seen it here too. Or perhaps they just don't like any criticism of their stuff? Well I don't know which is worse smile

That said, OP wrote

PCLOS community is a totalitarian state littered with feeble-minded admins and arrogant, useless users.

I don't agree with this approach. There's probably a lot of people there and they can't all be the same, and probably, regardless of admins policies, a majority of them are decent folks. Generalizing anything is generally a bad idea imho smile

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#13 2010-10-16 04:48:32

Awebb
The Singularity
Registered: 2009-07-23
Posts: 2,812

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

I agree with this guide about asking questions. Asking questions without even trying to do some research or at least showing the will to do some thinking is little more than parasitic behavior. I don't have any issues helping out someone who doesn't know or understand anything, but I refuse to help build up bad habbits like always coming back and asking to do all the work for them.

It's a good thing to have such texts. It might sound extreme and dogmatic, and it would also be stupid to follow such texts line by line, but reading them should help people understand how all those volunteers on all those boards feel about how "their" boards, their productive space, getting spammed by lazy masses.

The other downside is search engines. Have you ever tried to find a certain solution for a certain problem, but all you found was dozents of threads in boards created by a lazy fella asking half-baked questions, but no real information?

Now for the positive part: There are very little such info leeches here on #! forums. There are many people not doing their research by themselves, but I almost never have the feeling they're just lazy. Most of the times they just lack knowledge and you can almost observe their growth of abilites with every answer they get.

We could now get all wet about wether my understanding of politenes is the right one or not. I definitly find sloppy questions impolite. But one thing that is more than impolite, is getting over to another board and complain about a different community. "Oh look how bad they are, look how good we are."

I could also start complaining elsewhere about the fact that mods on #! think I'm too rough with people not keeping up with an arbitrary paste I made up in my mind. But, well, why should I? It's #! forums, and not Arch forums or my private favorite gaming board. As long as I am lurking around this board, I'll try to stick with the rules and the local tone.

I'm also mildly disgusted by the way some people in this thread seem to jump at little pieces of meat thrown around. It only took four answers to trigger Godwin's law.

So next time you stumble over a pamphlet, make sure you know what you're looking at.


I'm so meta, even this acronym

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#14 2010-10-16 05:02:48

anonymous
The Mystery Member
From: Arch Linux Forums
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,360

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Awebb wrote:

Asking questions without even trying to do some research or at least showing the will to do some thinking is little more than parasitic behavior. I don't have any issues helping out someone who doesn't know or understand anything, but I refuse to help build up bad habbits like always coming back and asking to do all the work for them.

Im surprised this link hasn't been posted yet:

http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/


Note: ** Please read before posting **

BTW if you wish to contact me, send me an e-mail instead of a PM.

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#15 2010-10-16 10:32:27

machinebacon
#! unstable
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,586

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Scenario 1, RacistLinux forums:

X asks a question.
A spends 20 seconds to read it, calls the topic starter "a retard", copy&paste a link to a sticky, leaves.
B comes in, sees the link to the sticky, leaves without a word because A has already answered.
X comes back, reads the sticky, goes back to his topic, and answers the question (if he still dares)
A comes back again, reads the follow-up and answers it (or not)

Who has won? big_smile

Scenario 2, #! forums:

X asks a question. He doesn't speak English, but he tries his best. He also writes the question in eg. Italian.
A finds it too tiresome to answer, or maybe even doesn't know Italian and leaves without linking to a sticky and without insulting. smile 
B logs in to #! forums and sees that there is a question without response in the overview, so he comes in and does this oh-so tiresome job of asking for details, instead. lol
C is happy to find a fellow Italian user and offers him to help translating the question.
X comes back, is happy to get a response and help from (actually) strangers.

The winner is the community, and Linux is a community project.


Anyway, there is probably no friendlier community in the Linux world than #!
Although I have to admit, ubuntuforums are extremely helpful and nice to newbies. And surprisingly patient.

Oh BTW today is my birthday, let's see what happens wink

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#16 2010-10-16 13:04:58

boromeus
#! Junkie
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 254

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

^
Happy Birthday, machinebacon!!!

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#17 2010-10-16 15:04:55

anonymous
The Mystery Member
From: Arch Linux Forums
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,360

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Happy Birthday machinebacon. Hope you enjoy your day smile


Note: ** Please read before posting **

BTW if you wish to contact me, send me an e-mail instead of a PM.

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#18 2010-10-16 15:44:28

johnraff
#!Drunkard
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 2,687
Website

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Many happy returns, machinebacon! smile

anonymous wrote:

Im surprised this link hasn't been posted yet:
http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/

anonymous, that link has much food for thought.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , idle twitterings  and GitStuff )

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#19 2010-10-16 16:57:12

dove
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 161

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

SuperOscar wrote:
blackplague1347 wrote:

then linked the OP to a sticky titled "How to ask questions the smart way."

Come to think of it, the fact that such a sticky even exists speaks volumes. "This is how smart people do it. Follow these rules or you're not smart." How insulting!

Nah, I can’t totally agree on that. Of course linking to a howto may seem insulting and may even have been meant as insulting, but sometimes the howto’s are just what’s needed to keep the forums in good working order. It’s a way to keep the forum oldtimers happy. If, on a busy forum, people – especially new members – keep on asking trivial questions (a) without providing sufficient (or any!) information for anyone to come up with an answer, and (b) without first searching, however cursorily, if the question has been asked before, well, it’s bound to get rather tedious after a while.

The problem increases exponentially with the number of newcomers around, BTW...

Val_B wrote:

when I downloaded the SuSE DVD a while ago I found that it wasn't a live DVD but, rather a bootable installer DVD, this was a year or two ago so I don't know what it currently comes with but IIRC it had all kinds of software, even gnome on the DVD, however, you didn't have to install any of that if you didn't want to. I found it rather strange, as that sort of boot up and install I thought had went away a long time ago (when everyone pretty much selected the packages they wanted when they installed).

SUSE has a rather strange way of providing installation DVD’s but live CD’s (from which you can of course install!). I don’t know why this is so. I guess that the “SUSE way of things”.

The opensuse dvd allows you choice of desktops {kde,gnome,xfce& now LXDE I believe} and extra packages during install. You could crunchbang xfce.

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#20 2010-10-16 18:44:17

machinebacon
#! unstable
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,586

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

@boromeus

koszi szepen! jo latni egy par magyar juzert is smile

@anonymouse big_smile  & raff 先生

thank you!

Love #!

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#21 2010-10-16 21:44:24

lordberic
#! Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2009-12-23
Posts: 59

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Hey Happy B'day Machinebacon!! cool

I have to say tho, I am unimpressed with the Ubuntu forums as well lately, whenever i answer a question i get no response as to whether i have given good advice or not, and people always want to nit-pick about whether a command does one thing or the other.
Fedora forums are surprisingly better but there is not a massive community spirit.

Theres just something about #! (OS and community) it's a bit more welcoming here big_smile

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#22 2010-10-16 23:29:59

cc_INC
#! Member
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 76

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

lordberic wrote:

Theres just something about #! (OS and community) it's a bit more welcoming here big_smile

I totally agree with you, and I hope it stays this way big_smile

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#23 2010-10-17 00:24:34

Metaphysicist
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2010-08-20
Posts: 110

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Small town mentality with #!. Ubuntu would benefit the most out of any possible improvement, by having a mature community.

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#24 2010-10-17 04:49:00

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 11,452

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

^ "Welcome to CrunchBang, the Mayberry of Linux distros!"


Yes; as a matter of fact, I am a cop.  Why do you ask? cool
I'm a moderator here.  How are we doing?  Feedback is encouraged.

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Help fund CrunchBang, donate to the project!

#25 2010-10-17 15:50:35

lordberic
#! Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2009-12-23
Posts: 59

Re: Man, visiting the PCLinuxOS forums reminds me why I love #!

Metaphysicist wrote:

Small town mentality with #!. Ubuntu would benefit the most out of any possible improvement, by having a mature community.

I would agree with that statement, I do think what we have that's a bit better than other communities is the lack of a l337 vs n00b ego mentality, i haven't (so far) found anyone asking a question and been given a snarky response.
When posting on ubuntu forums i have had people nit picking my posts, where i was trying to be helpful, pointing out that commands could have a different meaning, it wasn't relevant but was maybe done to boost an ego.

I have been using linux both professionally and at home for quite a long time, i don't feel the need to be superior to anyone, i want to help people who try to learn not belittle people for asking questions when the answer is obvious to me, or try to get geek cred for unnecessarily correcting people

I like the #! community because of the small town mentality, i hope it stays this way too, no matter how big we get big_smile

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